Knights Templar NWN

A forum for the Knights Templar mod for Neverwinter Nights
 
HomeFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 A new high level set idea with robes

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Tyler Steele



Posts : 13
Join date : 2009-02-08

PostSubject: A new high level set idea with robes   Mon Feb 23 2009, 23:07

i thought their should be a high lvl set (like rusty and pally set) that could be used by dex based chars, ect.

robe-
+15 ac
40/- piercing resist
immune to level/ability drain
+10 regen
+10 hide
+10 move silently
greater endurance-5 times a day

belt-
greater cats grace-5 times a day
30/- acid resist
30/-cold resist
immune to timestop
hide in plain sight

ring-
30/- fire resist
greater bulls strength-5 times a day
immune to spells lvl 4 and lower
40/- slashing resist

boots-
+8
haste
freedom
30/- sonic resist
+10 tumble
+5 throws reflex
greater foxs cunning-5 times a day

helmet-
true seeing 5 times a day
greater owls wisdom-5 times a day
immune to sneak attack
+10 spot
+10 listen
+6 ac
immune to mind affecting spells
immune to fear


cloak-
40/- bludgeoning resist
30/- electric resist
immune to death spells
greater eagles splendor-5 times a day




set bonus-
+10 regen
+20/30 soak
+5 to all stats


Last edited by Tyler Steele on Fri Feb 27 2009, 18:27; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Clive Forumposter

avatar

Posts : 94
Join date : 2008-09-11
Age : 41
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Tue Feb 24 2009, 06:17

By using up the bracer slot means that this can't be used by monks, unless they are using kama or crossbow. With the great range of gloves in KT most monks use these.

Otherwise a solid set, maybe a little on the powerful side but as it is competing with the rusty and pally sets I think it fits quite well.

That said, I can't see the fascination with robes for people who can only wear cloth armour, Look at the Pirate Armour, good stats without having to run around in a frock.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Tyler Steele



Posts : 13
Join date : 2009-02-08

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Tue Feb 24 2009, 17:45

ok, i will change the bracers to a ring, thanks Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GammaGm



Posts : 64
Join date : 2008-12-29

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Tue Feb 24 2009, 19:09

That 15 AC on monk armor would make dexer monks have the highest AC of any comparable set on the server.

It resists every element and damage type. It provides a plus 12 bonus to all stats.

With monk feats and skills, you would be unhittable (with a few exceptions) and would resist nearly every spell but those with exotic damages.

Way overpowered is my assessment. Shocked
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPharaoh

avatar

Posts : 148
Join date : 2008-09-23
Age : 30
Location : NYC-Brooklyn

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Tue Feb 24 2009, 21:26

GammaGm wrote:
That 15 AC on monk armor would make dexer monks have the highest AC of any comparable set on the server.

It resists every element and damage type. It provides a plus 12 bonus to all stats.

With monk feats and skills, you would be unhittable (with a few exceptions) and would resist nearly every spell but those with exotic damages.

Way overpowered is my assessment. Shocked

Pirate Armor has 10AC.
Pally Armor has 15AC.
Rusty Armor has 15AC.
Angel's Buff gives 20AC Armor bonus. (It does not stack)
Therefore A character wearing Pally or Rusty Armor gains only 5AC from Angel's Buff but someone wearing Pirate Armor gets 10AC. IF wearing Adventurer's Robe +6 you get additional 14AC from angels buff so now you tell me what's the difference if a cloth has 15ac or not if everyone always use Angel's Buff from Angel of Angel Feathers.
Stop that bs with monks this monks that if you have no idea what you're talking about. What do monks get more?? AC bonus from wisdom covers for Shield Loss. Casters get Spell resists from spells, fighters from items... Even monk's more attacks per round doesn't change anything as a monk with gloves deals a lot less damage than a fighter. The only way for monks to deal as much damage as fighters is Use: Unique Power 1x/day but just imagine how many pair of gloves you would have to carry for change. Another reason is Heroism Potion.
It's also not true that a monk resists nearly every spell but these exotic types. Bigby, Issacs, ice storm, any others that don't require saves for half damage because of evasion and imp evasion.

where does it provide 12bonus to all stats?? i only see 5to all stats unless I'm blind.
Even if the set has all the elemental and damage type resists how does it make a difference?? you can get it all from combining different items. it doesn't have any exotic type of resists...


Last edited by GPharaoh on Wed Feb 25 2009, 14:08; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/
Nuli



Posts : 98
Join date : 2008-09-10
Age : 42
Location : Pittsburgh, Pa

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:10

Gpharoah...your posts might receive more then a cursory glance if you could ever do one without being insulting. In case you don't know, saying things like "Stop that bs with monks" and "first think before posting something stupid" are considered rude. The point of these boards is to make the server better, not prove who has the ultimate NWN knowledge. People are free to offer their opinions. If you don't like someones opinion, it is ok to disagree with them without telling them they are an idiot. Please try being a bit more respectful.

As to the set, it would need some tweaking, but as I posted elsewhere, it would be nice to see a set similar to this. Monks or dexers could use a nice high level set. Thanks for ideas Tyler.

Nuli
Back to top Go down
View user profile
werehound



Posts : 123
Join date : 2008-12-24

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Wed Feb 25 2009, 14:53

Pirates armor: +10 AC = True
Pally Armor: +15 AC = true BUT you must include the BASE +8 ac ffrom the breatplate..... so 23 armor total.
Rusty Armor: +15 AC = true BUT you must include the BASE +8 ac ffrom the breatplate..... so 23 armor total.

Those two sets have Shields also, which monks cant use without losing their bonuses.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GammaGm



Posts : 64
Join date : 2008-12-29

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Wed Feb 25 2009, 18:32

Dex stat bonuses (dodge) stacks in an unlimited fashion with AC bonus from the armor, plus Angel bonus (20 bonus max). A dex armor of this kind can exceed the AC from plate armors.

Creation of a set that does not have a downside to its upsides is a 'lil boring. Plus, offering something quirky or unusual helps set this server aside from other servers. Novelty is the lifeblood of a game some of us have been playing most days of the week, for years.

This point of dexer cloth armors has been discussed by Sarah the DM in other places. I offer this consideration and assessment so that a monk set could be built and fit in with the limitations suggested by the server creator, programmer, and host.

Gpharoah, you could learn the difference between critique, and antagonism. Even if your ideas and criticisms are valid, few are patient enough to wade through your vituperous blatherings. "As apples of gold in settings of silver, so are right words in chosen circumstances" (Proverbs Something; I forget).

Tyler is a friend. I'm not attacking him. His set needs some tweaking to help sell it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPharaoh

avatar

Posts : 148
Join date : 2008-09-23
Age : 30
Location : NYC-Brooklyn

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Wed Feb 25 2009, 18:55

GammaGm wrote:
Dex stat bonuses (dodge) stacks in an unlimited fashion with AC bonus from the armor, plus Angel bonus (20 bonus max). A dex armor of this kind can exceed the AC from plate armors.
Even if Dodge AC bonus does stack it's limited at 20, but what does it have to do with Armor AC.
Dexers get AC bonus from Dexterity, Str based characters get higher damage from str modifier.
Someone wearing heavy armor gets 8AC base +20AC Armor bonus which is 28AC Armor bonus TOTAL. Now you don't need to waste any points into dexterity and put everything into strength to increase your damage... lets say you have 30strenght(30str-10str=20str/2=10more damage)
Someone wearing Robe gets +20AC Armor bonus plus the rest from Dexterity Modifier... lets say you have 30dexterity(30dex-10dex=20dex/2=10AC) which is total of 30AC while wearing Cloth Armor.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/
werehound



Posts : 123
Join date : 2008-12-24

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Wed Feb 25 2009, 18:57

Not only that, but no NON-WM dexer can exceed an AB of 70..., right now STR users have highest AC AND Highest AB. Also, if a Dexer is flatfooted, they lose all fo their Dex/Dodge ac bonus... whereas people using plate mail can keep their base armor (8 and 3) bonuses, shield bonus, and armor bonusm which is higher than any cloth.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Warchief

avatar

Posts : 102
Join date : 2009-02-09

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Thu Feb 26 2009, 14:11

Not all dexers lose their AC and dodge bonuses for being flatfooted. Rogues have a feat which I believe they gain at 2nd level called uncanny dodge which enables them to retain their dex and dodge bonuses even if they are flatfooted. Dexer may lose out on damage but at high lvl that wont even matter because most monsters in d15/16 are immune to physical anyway so the str bonus wont make a difference. Also if you are playing a dexer rogue then you also have epic dodge which mean you will avoid the first attack in every round automatically anyway. So if you have a base 30 dex +12 for maxing it out with items will be 42 dex which is +16 ac +8 AC for tumble, +15 for the suggested armor, + 8 for boots, + 6 for helm, + 4 for haste + 10 base AC +2 if armor skin is taken and if the dexer uses a shield Drow shield for example will be +9 and +5 for the angel buff is 83 AC. which is more than a Templar Paladin without the angel buff.Now if you add other classes in there like Palemaster or Red Dragon Disciple or Shadow Dancer then the AC from those classes can be added for even more AC. So a Dexer that makes full use out of this set plus the AC from classes like Palemaster, RDD or Shadow Dancer(or a combination of the three) plus rogue with epic dodge the AC of the dexer could easily top 100 plus the first attack of every round misses. I don't know about any of you but I would think that a character like that would be fairly hard to hit.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPharaoh

avatar

Posts : 148
Join date : 2008-09-23
Age : 30
Location : NYC-Brooklyn

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Thu Feb 26 2009, 15:45

*The uncanny dodge and defensive awareness feats allow a character to retain his dexterity bonus to AC while flat-footed*

and what does it change if its +5 +10 or +14 from angels buff if everyone still uses angel's buff?? even evil players can use angels buff if they have enough persuade skill??
You seem to still not understand something really important.... Angel's Buff doesn't increase your AC, it changes your AC Armor Bonus to +20, that means without armor you still have that much AC.
Templar Pally gets 88AC without Angel's Buff.
Dexers get 83AC without Angel's Buff wearing Pirate Armor.
SO you're saying that STR characters can't take tumble?? or can't increase their ac taking Palemaster, Shadowdancer, RDD?? They can still take Rogue/bard lvls to max tumble, just that there's a penalty for wearing heavy armor.(loose half of your tumble skill, so if you have 40tumble you only get 20 from tumble) but in a rusty set you get bonuses to tumble which comes out with 40 tumble skill still, so thats still 8ac.
Dexers can only increase dex every 4 lvls or in epic lvls but its limited at 10feats.
Str based characters can take str every 4 lvls, epic lvls which is limited at 10feats, and RDD lvls give almost 10STR.
Str based characters can use heavy weapons which have even more damage while dexers have to use only light weapons and have to take a feat weapon Finesse.
Saying that it doesn't matter if dexers loose at higher dungeons like d15/16 because they are immune to physical damages. Tell me how many monsters are immune to physical damage because i can't recall many and if they do why don't you use different type of physical damage.

*STR based bard/RDD/PM can have 39BASE AC while any other STR based Character can get 18BASE AC so imagine how much more AC that build gets*

Let me tell you one thing.... someone smart made this game and he knew what he did. He didn't do anything one sided, but you ppl here try to make things here one sided because you want STR based characters have everything the best. Dexers can only have 10AC more over Str based characters(i.e. Str based character can get 93ac without imp expertise and dexer can get 103ac without imp expertise)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/
Warchief

avatar

Posts : 102
Join date : 2009-02-09

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Thu Feb 26 2009, 17:38

When I am in d15/16 and give someone a wack with my double axe as Twin Axes i do 0 physical(aka slashing damage) but the elemntal side still gets through. What you say about people wanting Str based characters to have everything is actually not true and the proof for that is some of these posts about a high lvl set for dexers and the post about making an Arcane Archer set and posts about monk sets, improving the Crimson order, and changing Wizard/ Sorc spells to make them more usable at high lvl. Right now the site seems to be more directed towards str based characters due to the sets that are currently in the game. I dont think there is a single post on this forum giving the dm the idea of making the Paladin Set or the Rusty Set which are both directed towards str based characters as dexers dont gain any bonuses from being in heavy armor.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GammaGm



Posts : 64
Join date : 2008-12-29

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Thu Feb 26 2009, 20:42

I agree that I --personally-- want str based chars to have the best. I believe that metal armors should have greater protective factors than cloth. I'm not quite sure why I hold this irrational belief, but I do. Somehow I believe that metal plates would provide more of cutting down on the odds that tender flesh would be pierced by arrows, swords or whatever and that when such damage is delivered the severity of damage would be reduced.

The two ways of this --complete farce -- could be mathematically represented would be in terms of AC and/or in terms of damage reduction (percentage or say 10/-). I do think damage reduction would be a more accurate representation of this facet of fantasy combat.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Warchief

avatar

Posts : 102
Join date : 2009-02-09

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Thu Feb 26 2009, 21:22

AC on Armor and Ac from cloth represent two different things. The base 8 AC on fullplate is to represent the protective value of the armor where cloth does not have a base AC because cloth will not protect you from an arrow sword or whatever. The main reason that dexer's would have more AC than a fighter wearing plate is because in reality a fighter wearing full plate has the protection of the plate but has a harder time dodging out of the way of an arrow sword etc., and a dexer would be more mobile in cloth and is therefore able to simply dodge out of the way of an oncoming attack. Now I'm sure we all know that this is fantasy so that is why dexers have such a grand ability of avoiding being hit in nothing but cloth and fighters in full plate get slapped around like a monster's chew toy.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Nurvall



Posts : 2
Join date : 2009-02-26

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Thu Feb 26 2009, 22:14

I have little to offer but nit-picks, I'm afraid. However, I hope it will help to advance the discussion.

Warchief wrote:
Not all dexers lose their AC and dodge bonuses for being flatfooted. Rogues have a feat which I believe they gain at 2nd level called uncanny dodge which enables them to retain their dex and dodge bonuses even if they are flatfooted.
Uncanny dodge (and Defensive Awareness) does not stop the dodge bonus (including tumble AC) from being lost -- only the dexterity bonus.

GPharaoh wrote:
SO you're saying that STR characters can't take tumble?? or can't increase their ac taking Palemaster, Shadowdancer, RDD?? They can still take Rogue/bard lvls to max tumble, just that there's a penalty for wearing heavy armor.(loose half of your tumble skill, so if you have 40tumble you only get 20 from tumble) but in a rusty set you get bonuses to tumble which comes out with 40 tumble skill still, so thats still 8ac.
Armor has no effect on the tumble skill aside from the armor check penalty. Also, the modified skill rank does not affect the tumble bonus to AC -- only base ranks do (added at level-up).

Warchief wrote:
So if you have a base 30 dex +12 for maxing it out with items will be 42 dex which is +16 ac +8 AC for tumble, +15 for the suggested armor, + 8 for boots, + 6 for helm, + 4 for haste + 10 base AC +2 if armor skin is taken and if the dexer uses a shield Drow shield for example will be +9 and +5 for the angel buff is 83 AC. which is more than a Templar Paladin without the angel buff.
You missed the natural armor (amulet) bonus.

GPharaoh wrote:
Dexers can only increase dex every 4 lvls or in epic lvls but its limited at 10feats.
Str based characters can take str every 4 lvls, epic lvls which is limited at 10feats, and RDD lvls give almost 10STR.
Don't forget that RDD's gain an additional 4 AC at level 10.

GPharaoh wrote:
Dexers can only have 10AC more over Str based characters(i.e. Str based character can get 93ac without imp expertise and dexer can get 103ac without imp expertise)
I had trouble coming up with this number. Is it 12 (34 base dexterity) + 6 (modified dexterity) - 8 (armor)? If so, you left out the +1 dexterity AC possible in heavy armor.




I came up with a table to illustrate for myself the AC advantages of a dexterity character. I hope someone may find it useful.

If I made any noticeable errors, please point them out.

(I purposely left out the Monk AC bonus as I feel it would distort the data -- Monks fit in their own separate category.)

Strength
Dexterity
Dexterity AC Advantage
Description AC Amount Description AC Amount
Base armor class
8
Base armor class
0
-8
Dexterity modifier bonus
1
Dexterity modifier bonus1
10-12
+1-3
Dexterity modifier bonus (bard, assassin, harper, AA)2
10-15
Special (see below)
Modified dexterity bonus
0
Modified dexterity bonus
6
+7-9
Tumble skill bonus3
4-8
Tumble skill bonus
8
7-13
Draconic Armor bonus (RDD)4
1-4
Draconic Armor bonus (RDD)
0
Special (see below)
Total
+7-13
With bard or assassin
+7-16
With Red Dragon Disciple
+3-12
With Red Dragon Disciple versus bard, assassin, HS, or AA
+3-15

Notes:
1. Assuming minimum base 30 dexterity.
2. 40 base dexterity (+15 AC) is only possible if all epic feats chosen are Great Dexterity (up to Great Dexterity X).
3. Assuming at least 20 cross-class points were invested in Tumble. Any build that does not is not worthy of comparison.
4. Assuming that no Epic Red Dragon Disciple levels are taken. I think this is a safe assumption, as RDD is a particularly poor epic class.


Last edited by Nurvall on Fri Feb 27 2009, 01:25; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Nurvall



Posts : 2
Join date : 2009-02-26

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Thu Feb 26 2009, 22:47

Here's my opinion.

An average AC bonus of plus-ten for a dexterity-based build is not overpowered. It may be able to solo individual creatures more effectively, but it should not be able to tank as well as a warrior in full-plate. Lessen the elemental and physical resistances, and add bonuses that make the cloth-wearing player more deadly in single combat. Things like:
  • Spell resistance
  • Immunities to certain spells or spell schools (Bigby comes to mind)
  • Skill bonuses like persuade, taunt, tumble, discipline, hide, and move silently
  • Feat bonuses like Dodge, Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind, Expertise, Whirlwind, HiPS, Improved Initiative, Self-Concealment, and Knockdown
  • Saving-throw bonuses
  • Spell-ability bonuses like True-Strike, Improved Invisibility, Gust of Wind, Greater Dispel Magic, Great Thunderclap, Protection from Spells, and Expeditious Retreat


I'm sure there's more that could be added, but I'm not thinking of it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Tyler Steele



Posts : 13
Join date : 2009-02-08

PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   Fri Feb 27 2009, 18:22

hmm..good idea's, i will change some of the stuff Very Happy

thanks
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: A new high level set idea with robes   

Back to top Go down
 
A new high level set idea with robes
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» 110824 SM Entertainment to Join Production of "Dream High: Season 2"
» High Noon (A Cowboy/wildwild west story)
» High School MANIC! [PB] LB
» Discussion Class One: Pop Culture vs. High Culture
» Fiore National High School [OPEN]

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Knights Templar NWN :: Comments & Suggestions :: Items-
Jump to: