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 Harper Scout Changes

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Warchief

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PostSubject: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 14:40

Since the harper scout class is for the most part a useless class I have a suggestion to make the Harper scout at least somewhat appealing to players. If it is possible I was thinking that you could slightly change the harper scout's ability to craft potions at higher lvl and change it so the Harper scout can craft true strike pots and hero pots. The requirments should be as follows: 5 lvls of Harper Scout and character lvl 60. Just a thought because this way in order to craft the potion you must take all 5 lvls of harper scout and have your character reach 60th lvl before you can make use of an ability to craft such powerful potions. The penalty to craft these potions should be as follows: 50k in gold per potion and 50k xp. This is so that it is a little more expensive than buying the odd pot at the shop and it makes it so you if you want to make tons of them you need to keep playing the character to gain the xp back since you have to be lvl 60. I realize that this will probably take a lot of coding and wont happen anytime soon(if at all) but as i said earlier, it is just a thought.
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GPharaoh

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 15:28

it would still be useless class. First of all, true strike pots are useless unless you make dexterity based character using heavy weapons so that you don't get any use from weapon finesse. Than that build would lack AB and true strike potions would be useful until you can use +20weapons. Monsters in all the dungeons have low enough AC that you can easily hit them if you have appropriate level. (i.e. d1 1-5; d2 6-10; d3 11-15; etc.) Therefore with that high cost for crafting a potion who would want to craft them.(to get 50k EXP you would have to kill at least 17monsters in hell. They give 3 000EXP if solo)
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Warchief

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 18:55

The main reason for 50k xp ding is so that you cant spam making hero pots. The hero pot is the main thing that would make the class worth taking even though it is still mainly a useless class. Hero pots are useful no matter what lvl or what d you are in.
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GPharaoh

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 19:45

hero pots shouldn't even be around. Potion like that makes monks useless. Monk with dual kamas haste and flurry of blows can get 10attacks per round. Unarmed monk with haste and flurry of blows can get 8attacks per round. Now, kamas can be enchanted to 25lvl on hit(which gives damage equal to other type of weapons), but gloves for unarmed damage is limited at 60damage. So unarmed monks are useless because a fighter deals plenty more damage and kills monsters faster with 5attacks per round than a unarmed monk with 7 or even 8attacks per round with flurry.
Heroism potion gives 5additional attacks per round. Tenser's Transformation gives 4 additional attacks per round.
Now, who would deal more damage and kill a monster/player faster?
fighter with the high ab and 5 attacks per round +1 from haste
or
a monk with average ab and more attacks per round(dual kama haste(10) and flurry or unarmed haste and flurry(Cool)

[Fighter/weapon master can get up to 80ab
monk/shadow dancer/weapon master can get up to 70ab]


it's the same issue with heavy armor and robes.
Angel's buff gives 20AC Armor bonus modifier.
Armor bonus doesn't stack but, we have heavy armor +15 and one and only pirate armor +10AC which isn't anything special.
*Saying that making cloth armors with as much AC bonus as heavy armor would make dexters overpowered isn't right*(that's how Sarah the DM thinks). But tell me why is that?
fully buffed paladin can get 93AC(angel buff and 20AC dodge bonus(+8 from boots +4haste +8 divine shield). It's 5AC less without angel's buff.
fully buffed dex based Cleric can get 103AC (angel buff and 20AC dodge bonus(+6boots +4haste +4undeaths eternal foe x2). It's 10AC less without angel's buff.
Any non caster can cast any spell because of the items that allow you to cast spells which gives them upper hand.


Last edited by GPharaoh on Tue Feb 17 2009, 19:47; edited 1 time in total
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GammaGm



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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 19:45

There is currently no use for craft potion or craft wand feats on the server.

Harper Scout is the unwanted progeny of delusion. Let it get a job as a waitress, street vendor, or used car salesman or something.
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Nuli



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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 20:35

GammaGm wrote:
There is currently no use for craft potion or craft wand feats on the server.

Harper Scout is the unwanted progeny of delusion. Let it get a job as a waitress, street vendor, or used car salesman or something.

LOL indeed.

lol!
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Warchief

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 20:37

I know there is no potions to craft but the harper scout feat "Craft Harper Item" should give you the potion automaticly without needed an magic potion bottle or an item that gives you the ability to craft a potion. Also hero pots does not make a monk useless because monks can drink them aswell and gain the bonuses. Also when did AC, attack bonus, monk attacks vs fighter attacks have anything to do with a Harper Scout feat. Seriously post something constructive or on topic or don't post at all.
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GPharaoh

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 21:00

Quote :
Heroism potion gives 5additional attacks per round. Tenser's Transformation gives 4 additional attacks per round.
Now, who would deal more damage and kill a monster/player faster?in other words, Who would gain more from it?
fighter with the high ab and 5 attacks per round +1 from haste
or
a monk with average ab and more attacks per round(dual kama haste(10) and flurry or unarmed haste and flurry(Cool)

[Fighter/weapon master can get up to 80ab
monk/shadow dancer/weapon master can get up to 70ab]
or do i have to make it more clear for you?
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Warchief

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 21:18

As i said what does that have to do with changes to Harper Scout feat? Nothing as far as i can tell considering the fact that you are talking about monks and fighters. So either post something constructive to the topic or don't post at all.
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GammaGm



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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 21:37

Sorry Chief, no offense meant, just having a bit of fun.

Seriously, the Harper Scout can have uses on some servers that have high AC dexer armors. Harper Scouts are one of the few classes that get offered the Great Dexterity feat in epic levels. Potions are an idea, but they already exist and their rarity is what makes them valuable.

Otherwise, you are discussing the creation of essentially an entire new class under the name "Harper Scout" that does not really resemble the HS class. With the limitations Sarah the DM is under with real life issues at the moment, it may be better to offer ideas that take very little time to implement. Heck, even my ideas on the items thread are probably too much. Suspect
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Warchief

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 21:45

Haper Scouts cannot go epic and the post about being constructive was not aimed at you GammaGm but at GPharoh with all the rubbish about fighters and monks on a Harper Scout topic. Harper Scout has always been a useless class and I was just hoping that something could be added to make them at least somewhat useful. I know Sarah has a lot going on right now but hehas said in other posts that he is taking notes for when he does have time.
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GPharaoh

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 22:12

EDIT


Last edited by GPharaoh on Thu Feb 19 2009, 13:50; edited 1 time in total
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Warchief

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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Tue Feb 17 2009, 22:44

tsk tsk tsk GPharoh resorts to trashtalk cause his post gets shot down as useless. It is true that both potions change the aspects of any build or class but that doesnt mean you post complaints about here. If you think they are overpowered then make a topic on it instead of complaining on topic that is not specificly about potions. I may have mentioned potions but that doesnt mean that is the only aspect of the class that could be changed. The Forums are supposed to be used for posting your own topics or CONSTRUCTIVE critisism not trashtalk. So unless you have anything constructive to add dont bother posting.
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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Thu Feb 19 2009, 11:14

Since there is no constructive comments. I deem this post as a bad idea. Request that this topic be deleted if possible.
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Sarah the DM



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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Thu Feb 19 2009, 18:18

I don't know about harper scouts, because I've never bothered to look into the class. I hate to admit it, but I'm a fan of D&D before all the stupid prestige classes. Yeah, I know a lot of people love playing the prestige classes, but harper is certainly one of the worst. Other, more popular ones, are popular because they have feats or abilities that people think give them an advantage.

One thing I am interested in are spells that don't work correctly. You should not be able to stack spells, yet GPharoah says Undeaths Eternal Foe is stackable. This is one of the reason why the monsters have such insane ABs. Once I think I've got a handle on player AC capabilities, I find out that someone knows what I consider a spell loophole to gain more AC.

No one should be able to stack spells to keep increasing their dodge bonus up to the +20 maximum. For spells, only the maximum spell bonus should apply.
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Nuli



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PostSubject: Re: Harper Scout Changes   Thu Feb 19 2009, 21:12

I never really understood why they decided to add Harpers to the game period. They are more a RP type class for the Forgotten Realms, not so much a hack n slash type character. They have a couple nice benefits that can be decent but they aren't exactly powerful as their abilities do not overshadow whatever their primary class abilities are.

I'm sure everyone will be pleased to know that they are back in 4E D&D as the Harper of Legend epic destiny where they are actually quite good.

cheers
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