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 bonuses for non presitge classes

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aztech63



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Join date : 2008-09-10

PostSubject: bonuses for non presitge classes   Wed Sep 10 2008, 20:00

I heard that pure class characters for example 60 levels of wizard get bonuses to make them the equal of prestige classes. What bonuses do they actually get?Do they still get bobuses if they are like 59 levels of Wizard 1 level of rogue? Or do they have to be only 1 class?
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Sarah the DM



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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Wed Sep 10 2008, 20:24

Going multiclass on KT can be detrimental if you don't know what you're doing. Let's say you're a level 39 wizard, but you decide to take a level of rogue in order to gain the rogue abilities. You've just seriously damaged your wizard! Why? Well, levels beyond 40 are automatically split between your classes. If you play until level 60, you'll cast spells as a level 49 wizard and act like a level 11 rogue (for those few things custom scripted for rogues). That means you'll have a harder time making the spell resistance check, your spells will do less damage, and the monsters will have an easier time making a saving throw. I don't know of any spell or spell like ability that hasn't been modified to work with KT's extended levels. That includes magic resistance and saving throw calculations as I noted above.

So, I'd consider it carefully before you take more than one class. Dual-classed fighters are not affected much, but spell casters or classes that have special abilities you want to maximize (like rage) will definitely pay a price for taking an extra class. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, as some of the prestige classes have some pretty good advantages in other ways. The custom scripts are simply designed to keep the single-classed characters competitive with the multi-class builds.

BTW, the extended levels beyond 40 are split evenly between your classes. Also, item class restrictions are designed to prevent people from taking a single level in a class in order to use an item.
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aztech63



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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Thu Sep 11 2008, 10:44

Thanks for the reply.

I'm a little confused as to what you gain after level 40 as for example a mage? You don't get more skill points, feats or primary stats so what does the char actually gain?

Thanks
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Wheatonrunner69
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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Thu Sep 11 2008, 10:50

Read the post on player levels in this discussion. It directly shows how a mage gains stronger spells as he/she progresses up to lvl 60.

- WR69
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aztech63



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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Thu Sep 11 2008, 11:40

Sara's post in that other topic answered my questions thanks for pointing me to it.
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Kronos_Deftone



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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Thu Sep 11 2008, 17:40

In response to your end-post comment about item class-level restrictions it's good to know that it is an intentional addition to the server but I was just wondering about the extent you've had it designed to fit. When an item reads "Level Required-17" and then "Only Useable by: Fighter, Weapon Master" does that mean I need to take 17 levels in Fighter or Weapon Master or does that mean I can have a combination of the two classes totalling 17 levels? And how does this apply to levels above 40? Does that mean if I were to dual class and do 7 levels in Weapon Master with 33 levels in something else by level 60 i'd be able to equip said item?

I'm sorry if it sounds like i'm just splitting hairs, but I just want to create a character on this server that's able to use appropriate gear for it's level.
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Sarah the DM



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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Thu Sep 11 2008, 23:36

Bioware allows you to equip an item even if you only have one level in the restricted class. For example, a rogue could take one level of fighter in order to wear the fighter set. That annoys me as class restricted items are specifically designed for a particular class. Let's say I know rogues have a terrible AB, so I make a rogue weapon that has an unusually high attack bonus. If a class with a high AB takes 1 level in rogue, they'd get the much higher AB from the item. This can really unbalance things if classes with really high AC take a level to use items designed to boost low AC classes.

Now I know it's natural to want to build something that can't be hit and never misses. That might be great from that particular player's point of view, but I have to design a module for the best build. If not, those uber builds will dominate both the monsters and players, and the players that have them will use them to farm for items at no risk to themselves.

Again, that might sound great, but it violates a key concept of D&D, a concept that I think is essential to a fun module. That is, a DM must always leave the players wanting more. Neither too tough or too easy is the key, and it's actually extremely difficult to create given the wide variety of classes/feats/skills available.

Getting back to the original point, the KT class restrictions are designed to prevent players from taking a single level in a class in order to mix class-restricted items for uber builds. Here's how it works: your levels are divided by your number of classes. For a dual-class, you have to have at least half of your levels in the item's restricted class. However, the limit is capped at a maximum of 15

Example: you have a level 26 fighter/14 rogue. That's 40 total levels divided by 2. Your rogue requirement is level 20. This is greater than 15, so 15 becomes the required number of levels. A level 26 fighter/14 rogue wouldn't be able to use any rogue-restricted items.

Example: you have a level 10 paladin/30 blackguard. Again, that's 40 total levels divided by 2 and capped at a maximum requirement of 15. The blackguard wouldn't be able to use any paladin items.

Example: you have a level 12 fighter/13 wizard/15 rogue. 40 levels divided by 3 is 13 (fractions dropped). This character would be able to use wizard items but not fighter items.

I'm open to any ideas to better inform players during the game or change this system so long as the original intent is maintained. I just don't want players taking a single level in order to mix items and create special combinations that unbalance play.
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Wheatonrunner69
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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Fri Sep 12 2008, 13:06

Wow I'm very impressed. The more I hear about this custom scripting the more I like it. My Dwarven Defender doesn't care for the class restrictions, but I think its best for the server to keep it balanced.

DM:
Great post, that clarifies item class restrictions quite well. Good examples.

Keep up the great work,
- WR69
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Kronos_Deftone



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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Fri Sep 12 2008, 18:21

I think that's a wonderful addition to the game and I appreciate that you went to such long lengths to have it custom scripted into your server. And thank you for clearing up the whole item class-level restricition thing. I only have two criticisms about the server.

1. There is far too much shouting. I like the updates being shouted and all the server-related shouting(ie; selling gear or whatnot), but conversations had in Shout are incredibly annoying and it completely destroys any chance of making RP work in any way. I don't know if anyone else feels the same way that I do but I really don't care what someone thinks of sorcerors vs. wizard classes.

2. There is a decided lack or imbalance of resistances on the server. I have yet to find any decent slashing resistance and elemental/magical/positive resistances are hard to come by. Also a lack of resistances to death and mind spells. I know that makes the game more challenging and undoubtedly more fun but I can't help but notice the lack of resistances available with the amount of damage being dealt. I'm not suggesting extreme amounts of resistances, merely even amounts.

I really am enjoying the server and I thought i'd take a chance and make some constructive criticisms. I hope you don't take my suggestions as insults and merely see them for what they are- very small problems.

Thanks again,

-t.
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Sarah the DM



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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Sat Sep 13 2008, 14:22

Too much shouting is a new topic. I'd create a new thread for that, because I believe Nuli and others know how to turn it off for their characters. I have the ability to turn it off for everyone, but that would extreme.

As for the types of items, that's another new topic. Please start a new thread in the item area of the forum. I will try to address any item requests.
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tomcat

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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Mon Oct 06 2008, 01:39

for the class requirement on items does the fact that lvls after 40 split?
so a lvl 10 pali/30BG at lvl 60 would be 20 pali and 40BG allowing him to use pali stuff?
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Sarah the DM



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PostSubject: Re: bonuses for non presitge classes   Mon Oct 06 2008, 19:05

No. The custom calculated levels beyond 40 do not affect the restriction. The purpose of the class restrictions are to prevent people from taking a few levels in something in order to use class items. The class items are designed to help classes overcome their particular weaknesses. If people can overcome the class and alignment restrictions, they will be able to create more powerful characters than the module is designed to challenge. Those uber characters will farm the difficult areas and/or lord over "normal" players who don't know the special builds. Strategy is supposed to be more important on KT than just finding what combination of items/classes is strongest.

BTW, I intend to do more work to balance the various classes, but time is very limited for me until the end of October. I'm taking a state engineering exam on the 25th and must prioritize my time. After I pass the test, I hope to be able to address many of the remaining issues with KT.
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