Yet another call to remind DM that templars have to be weakened. We already had few players leave because of the unfair play and DM himself was making everything to make it balanced. Saying "was" because I think he doesn't want to make it balanced anymore. (We have a lot of players, if not even most of the players getting their goodies playing templars in not so long time period. SOME say I am jealous, but that's not the case. Whatever, I am just pointing out things because i have been playing since the first days this module was made and i know it was supposed to be Balanced server).

So I was fighting Perago The Templar and I lost. Not the first time this happened. I have 90AC(18 Dodge AC) and he easily hits/kills me. He doesnt even Taunt nor dispells me, just bigby from templars ammy. Take a look at my AC and the Attack rolls that hit me. Here's an interesting s/s:

I haven't had the ability to do much of anything to the module for the last month, but Templars should only be able to attack players who are wanted for crimes. I plan some changes to give thieves a little better chance to evade, but no good or neutral player should fear a Templar. If the Templars are attacking people without cause, ie not wanted, let me know.

I'm not entirely certain the AC reported in the character window is correct. I'm starting to believe it's a situation similar to the AB. I know for a fact the character window can show ABs higher than what the character actually has when you evaluate the scrolling battle text. The maximum AB bonus from items is +20.

I wonder now if the AC is accurate. I'm pretty sure you cannot have more than +20 from any of the armor types, and I think spells typically alter miscellaneous armor. Once you reach +20, any further increases might show up like AB. Your character window shows AC improving, but actual AC is capped.

Either way, it would be very difficult to create a Templar who could easily hit AC 90. I don't have my books with me, but a 40 strength would give +15. A +20 weapon would increase the bonus to +35. That's the best possible from weapons and strength typically, although a heavily distorted paladin might get a couple more on strength.

Yeah, I'm thinking the AC 90 you saw in your character window was not accurate.

The attack was probably correct. If he was handed by Templar grasp then his dexterity drops to 3 which for a plate armor wearing guy would be a loss of around 10'ish ac plus you are considered flatfooted which also gives a bonus to hit which I dont believe gets reflected in the combat screen. As Sarah stated above, no GOOD person has anything to fear from the Templar knights so I still am unable to grasp why several people (and they are aware of who they are) are constantly complaining both here and in game over shout. If you dont like the Templars, fine, don't be one. If you dont want to face them in combat don't commit murders all the time. IMO the people complaining the most are the ones who want to get on with their "evil" characters and commit crime after crime with no repercussions. The fact that the Templars annoy them should tell you that the Templars are doing their jobs.

Nuli

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I assure everyone I haven't changed the combat system in any invisible way. All combat except for damage produced by the custom on hit effect is hard coded into the game. From the screen shots, it is absolutely clear that the AC is being reported as 90. I know from personal experience that it is very difficult for a knight to achieve an AB high enough to hit AC 90 with ease. So, something in NWN's hard coding must be involved.

As for the powers of the Templars, they are supposed to be the enforcers on KT. That's their job, to hunt down and eliminate "wanted" criminals. I was not aware that some are abusing the hand attack by weakening innocent foes. That is on the order of spawn killing and would be grounds for losing knighthood.

I will look at the hand attack coding and add a check to determine if a player is wanted or not. If a player is NOT wanted and the knight using the hand on them, I'll punish the knight as well as make the hand completely ineffective.

If, on the other hand, a player is wanted, you've got it coming. The best thing to do is to evade the knights, as you know they are powerful foes.

Finally, I don't think ANY character should be easily soloing D16. That includes knights, and it's not supposed to be free for them to go there. They should be getting charged, I believe, 25,000 XP each trip. If this makes it too easy for them, I can increase the fee.

Personally, I've tried solo attacks on hell before with a max character, and maybe I'm a weak player, but it wasn't easy. Nevertheless, I'll take a look at it some more.

Look at it this way:
+20 Soak 50 Damage- No monster can bypass this resists which gives players huge advantage alone. Players can bypass this resists using +20 weapons, so this doesn't make any difference if a templar fights wanted criminals(as they would have +20enchantment weapon).
Critical Immunity- Huge advantage over other classes here(no other items with critical immunity and it should be like that). NOW any good character doesn't need critical immunity as he would do good without it(even in case of Dev Crit: no way someone would take it with these penalties). On the other hand tell me how much damage monsters will deal to a critical immune character...
bigby's hand effect- It gives templars an advantage fighting monsters(how many monsters is immune to it?? Fallen Angel, Mistress of Darkness, and Vile King). Therefore immobilizing any monster we have a problem with makes it easy to kill them(hit and run... example. Fighting Black Toad) and that's so much for a hard time fighting something we dont like fighting with. NOW if we take a look at it PvP wise. Bigby wanted criminal(already huge advantage as the target is flatfooted). So any strong/powerful templar IS capable of taking care of any criminal with no problem. (i think you got an idea so i hope i dont have to go any more with it).
True seeing- I believe templars ammy is the only item with permanent true seeing on KT.
Templars ammy has the highest AC bonus.(Only rusty set amulet has 8AC which has the closest AC on ammy to templars ammy.
Free entrance to Hell. We could call it free as 25 000 XP penalty for entering hell is nothing( you get more than 3 000 XP for killing single monster). Now the only problem a templar could have would be fighting abyss Lord or Black Toad. But wait... templar can bigby them and kill them with no problem. ( abyss lords aren't that much of a problem. the only problem would be black toad but its not hard to kill it if a player knows how to play). Pit bulls would only do 20 divine dmg if a templar isn't using pally set. Abyss Knights are a joke really. They do no dmg at all unless a one dealing divine dmg spawns( he would be taking tops 60 Dmg from them). No, you can't tell me its hard killing monsters in hell with templars as i was looking how easily its done when my brother played templar(IF its that hard tell me how the heck did other players farm all the legendary items in hell playing ALONE).
Imagine templar with chunk of meteorite. It Debuffs any player from everything with no chance of failing(others have to drink potions to increase their AC/AB). IT also gives 30% chance of spell failure(even better than taunt as its hard to taunt casters because of their high concentration skill). While Mordenkainen's Disjunction spell not only doesn't always work(it usually doesn't debuff from everything). It also doesn't give spell failure. Therefore, comparing the strongest wiz/sorc debuff to chunk of meteorite is quite useless don't you think?
I could go on and on with all my so called "complaining" like some players call it, but whats the point?? DM doesn't want to look at it from different perspective of his Rule Enforcers.
Should we compare Crimson Monk Guild(2nd enforcers on KT that are quite useless, both pvp and pve wise) for example? I don't think it is necessary and i hope everyone is aware of their difference in power.

NOW could you tell me why not to make a templar if it gives me as a player so many advantages over other characters i could play??

If people are using knight hand on non wanted people just to be annoying, well that is something that should be checked. I suspect that at times people do it because by the time they check to see if the person is wanted, the wanted person has already ported away. It is a perfectly valid tactic to use the knight hand on a suspected evil doer then check to see if they are wanted before you attack. That way, they cannot just osha away before you determine their guilt. Some thieves have a nasty habit of stealing then purposely evading a knight for a little bit so they can pay their fine to hopefully get a templar to kill them when they are not wanted. But if someone is just arbitrarily following you around to be a jerk, that should be addressed.

As to people leaving cuz the templars are soooo powerful, what about all the people who leave or have left because of people like dziki, fallen angel and obi wan running around murdering people or constantly berating and insulting them? I guess it's ok to be a murderer and a thief and cause people to leave, but not ok, if you are a knight who is just doing his job because you are so overpowered?

Like Werehound says, I'm not even going to bother debating this with any of you anymore because it is absolutely pointless and is getting beyond annoying. I have already told gpharoah in game that his constant complaining is annoying and he has made his point yet again on here. Let Sarah review it and decide, but quit making these pointless posts and complaining in game about it. We get it...you dont like how powerful the templars are.

Nuli

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obi...u killed my monk berago, he was crimson, and u made me attack u and i lost all my items and then u killed me...

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