Templars overwhelming power

werehound · Posts: 109 Join date: 2008-12-24

Liquid · Posts: 21 Join date: 2009-01-05

Your dodge + Dex bonus to AC is only 7?

So you have 4 from haste, 1 from dex (full plate), and 2 from gear (boots?)?

Maybe you can just clear this up by posting how you're achieving the 90 AC in the character sheet, so we can stop guessing. Or Sarah can post what the effects of the green hand are.

Edit: sorry I was wrong about EffectCutSceneImmobilize(), the page I got the info from must have been wrong. Can't trust everything on the web...

I'm just trying to be helpful and troubleshoot why the AC seems to be bypassed. Problem solving the numbers is interesting. There's no need to get worked up nor be rude over a discussion where the data is limited from both sides. I don't really care that much, I quit playing on this server a while ago anyway after leveling up a few characters and seeing how broken some things are.

GPharaoh · Subject: Re: Templars overwhelming power Wed Feb 11 2009, 22:45

1dex(full plate) +5boots +4haste +9divine shield= 18AC
90AC -18AC -1AC= 71AC

Even if it did someone go below Peragos lowest attack roll This shows how powerful templars are with just the bigby like effect and that they don't need critical immunity and 20soak50damage to enforce justice.
Another thing is potion of heroism and tensers transformation adds 5 and 4 attacks per round. Things like this makes a builds that can get more than 6 attacks per round useless.

werehound · Posts: 109 Join date: 2008-12-24

Liquid · Posts: 21 Join date: 2009-01-05

werehound I thought that's what you thought this whole time, but hate to say that's just plain wrong. Look at the twiki pages carefully, and you'll see that when you're flat-footed you lose ALL dodge bonuses to AC, and also your Dex bonuses unless you have uncanny dodge. Even with uncanny dodge you lose dodge bonuses. Dodge bonuses stack to a max of +20.

And dodge bonuses are:
haste
divine shield
mage armor (+1)
bard song
boots
... and more ...

The dodge feat you're talking about (which is just +1 by the way, and is not on the character sheet), is not listed in the dodge bonus, and may or may not be lost when flat-footed (not sure).

Read these:
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Flat-foot
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/AC
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Dodge_bonus

And just to highlight:

Quote:

Sources of dodge AC

These will stack with each other, but is limited to a +20 maximum dodge bonus.

* item: boots AC bonus (+1-20)
* effect: haste (+4)
* feat: bard song (+2-7)
* feat: divine shield (+1-20)
* feat: defensive stance (+4)
* feat: battle training vs. giants (+4 against giant-type enemies)
* feat: mobility (+4 against attacks of opportunity)
* feat/skill: mounted combat (+1 for every 5 points of ride skill check above 10)
* feat: shadow evade (+1-4)
* spell: mage armor (+1)
* spell: epic spell: epic mage armor (+5)

All dodge AC is lost when caught flat-footed (even if the character has the uncanny dodge feat).

--------
GPharoah:

Ok, so with 18 dodge AC lost, I think it makes sense, if it's true that your dex drops to 3 while held (-4 dex mod). You normally have a +1 dex mod in your 90 ac, but that turns in to -4, so that's a loss of 5.

90 - 18 - 5 = 67.

In the combat logs, a 63 missed, and a 67 hit. Seems about right. Also I still think it's odd that the 3 combat mini-rounds went by without Demon attacking.

Someone said they saw a character with over 110 AC get hit. If that character had a really high dex, they'd also lose all that dex ac since their dex goes to 3. If not, I dunno.

As to whether Templars are overpowered, I don't really care. The only reason this templar seemed to kill this guy is the green hand causing massive AC loss, and unresistable divine damage. Physical damage rarely got through. That's just a failure by the mod, to give someone unresistable damage in PvP.

GPharaoh · Subject: Re: Templars overwhelming power Thu Feb 12 2009, 02:24

Liquid wrote:

Ok, so with 18 dodge AC lost, I think it makes sense, if it's true that your dex drops to 3 while held (-4 dex mod). You normally have a +1 dex mod in your 90 ac, but that turns in to -4, so that's a loss of 5.

i wasn't sure if i also loose AC even if it shows -4Dexterity on character sheet as we all know it pretty much lies.

Liquid wrote:

As to whether Templars are overpowered, I don't really care. The only reason this templar seemed to kill this guy is the green hand causing massive AC loss, and unresistable divine damage. Physical damage rarely got through. That's just a failure by the mod, to give someone unresistable damage in PvP.

That's what I am trying to prove all this time, but no one wants to accept this fact.
Bigby like effect is enough to enforce justice. Anyone caught in the "Hand of Justice" is no match for the templar and to prevent Templars from solo farming anything they desire.
Removing Critical Immunity and 20soak50damage doesn't weaken templars in enforcing law and order but it does make it really harder to solo farm that way no one will join the Templars guild just so that they would benefit this way.

Clive Forumposter · Posts: 97 Join date: 2008-09-11 Age: 33 Location: UK

Ok, Templar's have a great deal of power and advantage. As Sarah has said, this is intentional, therefore not likely to change.

Stop bickering about it, play the game or go find another mod there are plenty around. Or you could play NWN2, WoW, Warhammer, Conan, or countless others (I say WoW personally...)

GPharaoh · Subject: Re: Templars overwhelming power Thu Feb 12 2009, 15:53

Clive Forumposter wrote:

Ok, Templar's have a great deal of power and advantage. As Sarah has said, this is intentional, therefore not likely to change.

Stop bickering about it, play the game or go find another mod there are plenty around. Or you could play NWN2, WoW, Warhammer, Conan, or countless others (I say WoW personally...)

Sarah the DM wrote:

Finally, I don't think ANY character should be easily soloing D16. That includes knights, and it's not supposed to be free for them to go there. They should be getting charged, I believe, 25,000 XP each trip. If this makes it too easy for them, I can increase the fee.

GPharaoh wrote:

Liquid wrote:

Ok, so with 18 dodge AC lost, I think it makes sense, if it's true that your dex drops to 3 while held (-4 dex mod). You normally have a +1 dex mod in your 90 ac, but that turns in to -4, so that's a loss of 5.

i wasn't sure if i also loose AC even if it shows -4Dexterity on character sheet as we all know it pretty much lies.

Liquid wrote:

As to whether Templars are overpowered, I don't really care. The only reason this templar seemed to kill this guy is the green hand causing massive AC loss, and unresistable divine damage. Physical damage rarely got through. That's just a failure by the mod, to give someone unresistable damage in PvP.

That's what I am trying to prove all this time, but no one wants to accept this fact.
Bigby like effect is enough to enforce justice. Anyone caught in the "Hand of Justice" is no match for the templar and to prevent Templars from solo farming anything they desire.
Removing Critical Immunity and 20soak50damage doesn't weaken templars in enforcing law and order but it does make it really harder to solo farm that way no one will join the Templars guild just so that they would benefit this way.

Clive Forumposter · Posts: 97 Join date: 2008-09-11 Age: 33 Location: UK

Clive Forumposter wrote:

Stop bickering about it, play the game or go find another mod

GammaGm · Posts: 63 Join date: 2008-12-29

Clive Forumposter wrote:

Stop bickering about it, play the game or go find another mod

Warchief · Posts: 84 Join date: 2009-02-09

I second that! Seriously stop bicking about Templars on any thread and in game. Play the game or go find another mod/site.

GPharaoh · Subject: Re: Templars overwhelming power Thu Feb 12 2009, 19:49

Warchief wrote:

I second that! Seriously stop bicking about Templars on any thread and in game. Play the game or go find another mod/site.

GammaGm wrote:

Clive Forumposter wrote:

Stop bickering about it, play the game or go find another mod

Clive Forumposter wrote:

Stop bickering about it, play the game or go find another mod

Could you stop spamming my topic?? If you don't have anything to say keep away from here. I don't care if you don't like the facts i provided or not. You don't like it and don't have anything to prove it keep stupid posts like that away.

Warchief · Posts: 84 Join date: 2009-02-09

So far as I can tell your topic leads nowhere except for proving to everyone that reads it that your obsessed with making Templars weaker. So seriously quit your whining and just play the game.

GPharaoh · Subject: Re: Templars overwhelming power Thu Feb 12 2009, 21:58

Warchief wrote:

So far as I can tell your topic leads nowhere except for proving to everyone that reads it that your obsessed with making Templars weaker. So seriously quit your whining and just play the game.

could you keep posts like this away from here if you don't have anything intelligent to offer? I'm getting tired of people like you. You don't like it, don't post anything here. I can post whatever i feel is unfair, that's what the forums are for but i dont need the likes of you spawning my topic.

Warchief · Posts: 84 Join date: 2009-02-09

Whatever you go ahead and whine. Why should I care? Most of the Templars out there do their jobs and act like a good and honest Templar. There may be a few corrupt players but for the most part we all do our best best to act accordingly with the server rules.