changes.....

El Gabardine · Posts: 27 Join date: 2009-01-10

Not asking for immunity, just a fighting (literally!) chance for dex based toons .

Sarah the DM · Posts: 456 Join date: 2008-09-04

Not very monsters even have knockdown any more. I'd say about 10%. Bigby's is very useful against tiny creatures like bats. Monster ability scores are much lower (maximum only about 10 points higher than maximum achievable by players).

As for dex-based characters not having a chance, I don't understand the issue. Dex-based characters can get their AC as high as the strength-based characters, the strength bonus to damage is not a significant percent of total damage at higher levels (due to the custom KT weapon system), and dexterity based characters can get the feat that makes first hit an automatic miss (forget the name right now).

Dex based characters need to use the weapons that are valid for weapon finesse: short swords, rapiers, maces, etc. Most weapons don't work with weapon finesse to my knowledge.

Abriymoch · Posts: 28 Join date: 2009-02-16

Sarah the DM wrote:

As for dex-based characters not having a chance, I don't understand the issue. Dex-based characters can get their AC as high as the strength-based characters,

That there's the issue. DEX based characters, by definition, are supposed to have more AC than STR-based characters. IN fact, heavy armors should make a character easier to hit, just absorb more damage when it happens. As it is, Most Dexterity focused characters have "close-to" the same AC as a fighter character, but not quite... the +15 AC from Full plates (+8 AC base, +23 total, +1 DEX Bonus) is about equal to a character with 42 dexterity, the maximum bonus achievable is a player intends to get Epic Dodge (Automatic miss IF the FIRST attack of a round HITS, does nothing if it isnt the first attack of a round, doesnt apply to touch attacks, bolt effects, spells, etc -- requires base 30 dex, base 30 tumble, and some pre-epic feats). A Strenght based characters doesn't have to waste feats raising their AC to get it that high, whereas a dex-based character does.

Also, Dexterity AC is null/void if the character is flatfooted while being attacked, extra AC from armor is NOT (save dodge).

As it is, Being dexterity based is a waste of time.... It's hard to get your AC comparable to STR chars, you waste feats just making dexterity work for your AB, you lose feats to raise your defense, costing your yet more AB/AC (as is the case with Epic Dodge), your AB is lower (dex characters generally have a 3/4 AB modifier compared to 1/1 for most str-based classes, meaning 1 less attack and a natural loss of 5 AB). THe Damage modifer from a Strength Character is indeed noticible, Consider a strength character that has a strenght modifier of 18 (max without RDD, easy to get and conserve feats), that's +18 Damage each hit, and 36,54,64,80 damage on a critical (depending on the weapon).
Dex based characters have, at most, a +8 modifier (with +6 from items), and their weapons crit range tops at x3 (with WM), meaning MUCH less damage.

A dexterity based character has less AB than a strength-based character, and if they choose to use feats to raise the AB to a comparable level, they lose a butt-load of AC.

There's nothing to balance dexers from tanks.

As a mention to the KD Topic:

A caster with 480 (Completely and fully buffed, toughness and 12 CON) life gets hit by a KD bolt in D15 that does 168 damage, more on a critical, and then is KDed for 3 rounds is dead. Every time. Buffs don't matter.

A dexer has even less of a chance. 520-600 HP (buffed, 12-16 CON or 10-14 CON with toughness), gets hit by a KD bolt in D15 that does 168 damage and then is KDed for 3 rounds is dead due to the fact that their buffs don't exist, save some conceal from imp-invis items.

A Strength character that has a high discipline by definition (43+STR mod + skill foci) is bound to succeed in that KD check 99% of the time, if not 100% (touch attacks ignore the +20, +1 rules).

Sarah the DM · Posts: 456 Join date: 2008-09-04

I'm dropping the maximum armor AC to +10 (some exceptions for vs. racial bonuses greater than that). This should help make dexterity-based characters more viable. The +15 armors (Rusty and Set of Faith) were drivers for higher monster to hit bonuses. With those +15 armors reduced to +10, the monster ability scores can be tweaked more (maybe even to the point where they miss occasionally).

I haven't yet programmed the change to apply to armor retroactively. I'll take a look at that so that new players, who cannot find the +15 versions, will have equal footing with the old timers. However, I also tweaked the new versions so that the lower AC is somewhat compensated for by better properties in other areas. The real challenge will be to fix the Set of Faith since I want to increase its set bonus DR but don't want better DR combined with the existing +15 AC bonus (set bonus changes apply retroactively).