i noticed it when i tried d14 out with my mage and told you dark when you were lvling up your mage that 9lvl bigby's were nerfed. It seems that you just have to have 40 fortitude saves to resist from being held... this is bs.. even fire giants, from d8 Charred ruins easily resist bigbys casted by 60lvl mage.

It was really hard to play test in d14. If i was playing without summons it is impossible... if i summon mummy or the dragon... i get so many spawns that i have to rest after each area.

Now, even if casters deal good damage, they're limited to how much spells they can hold onto. No melee character should be able to out damage mage. Unlike mages, they don't have to rest to recharge weapon, they're not limited to how many times they can hit with a weapon. Characters that use ammunition to deal damage are limited to how much ammunition they carry with them, how much one can take with them?

If you want to limit bigbys to saves, fine with me, but make it fortitude save 60 and nothing and no one can resist bigby any other way. Items with immunities were replaced with saves, so getting your saves this high is nothing. Caster's increase in power past 40lvl right?? Yet i don't see DC saves increase past 40. Spells cast by 60lvl or 40lvl have the same DC saves, all that changes is damage. Well, it if would be possible and not much job i would make it like this. Spells Damage and DC increases more if you focus in that school magic. Lets say i choose Evocation school magic. My Evocation spells will have higher DC and maybe damage than if i choose necromancy or general school magic. That's my few cents

Thank you!

The Bigby's spells were completely rewritten. When I see casters using the same spell over and over again on virtually every creature, I know the spell is unbalanced. Bigby's is definitely one of the worst for that. Undead to death is another one.

However, I should have explained the mechanics of the new Bigby's versions so that the casters will know how it works and use it accordingly. I tested the changes extensively with a level 60 mage and felt the spell was working appropriately, but since all the Bigby's spells call the same script now for a resistance check, it's easy to tweak it further.

One of the biggest differences now is that all of the Bigby's spells can be more effective against certain creatures. The only one that really irritates me is the one where you can knock the monster down. I haven't yet figured out how to stop the monster from getting up, walking closer, and then laying back down next to the mage. I'm assuming it's something in the monster AI scripts which take a lot of work to alter.

However, you'll find that nearly all of the Bigby's are better than before in that when you hit with them, they do substantially more damage per round. One of the other ones cuts the opponent's speed way down and gives the monster -10 to hit (the old version--pretty much useless--only gave the "to hit" penalty, but the monster ran after you at full speed).

The first thing the Bigby's script does is run a magic resistance check. If the monster rolls magic resistance, the spell fails. In the past, monsters would get a magic resistance check every round. The new version only rolls the check once when the spell is cast. Caster level and spell level improve the odds of beating magic resistance.

Then a KT version grapple check is made. The caster roll is a d20 plus ability modifier plus a level bonus (max +5). The creature rolls a d20 plus strength modifier plus creature size modifier (ranges from -10 to +10 based on creature size).

Accordingly, high strength and very large creatures are going to be very difficult to restrain with a Bigby's. Humanoid sized creatures with moderate strength (about equal to the caster's ability modifier) are held better than half the time (if the magic resistance check fails). Small and/or weak creatures should be very easy to hold.

As I noted before, I'm still in the process of changing monster ability scores so that 60 is about the highest they'll ever have on any ability. A dragon with a 60 strength would roll a d20 + 25 + 10 = 36 to 55. A level 60 caster with a 40 intelligence would roll a d20 + 15 + 5 = 21 to 40. That seems pretty reasonable to me, since dragons, giants, and other creatures significantly larger than adventurers should be pretty difficult to hold.

A humanoid creature with a 30 strength (typical for the highest dungeons) would roll a d20 + 10 = 11 to 30 versus the caster roll of 21 to 40, giving about a 50% chance of success (not counting the magic resistance check). Once held by Bigby's the creature is pretty much finished/dead.

In PvP, a level 60 caster should have the same ability bonus as a level 60 fighter, they are the same size, and the caster gets the +5 level bonus, giving the caster an advantage.

Again, I think the new version Bigby's are reasonably effective. I spent quite a bit of time testing them to ensure they worked as I wanted, but I understand this is a complete change from the old Bioware versions. The new version is also less effective than I ultimately intend, until I finish reworking the rest of the monsters.

I appreciate your work and i can see you did a lot of working on that one. But how is a mage supposed to fight monsters solo. Before a monster fails a roll and gets grabbed its already next to the caster, now since a pure caster can't resist Knockdown and is easily hit (in case of sorcerers or wizards with 40AC wearing no shield or heavy armor). The caster is dead before he could deal some damage with the spells. If summoning help (ie. dragon or mummy) they get so many more spawns that you can't even keep the summons alive for a long, especially when you have to be next to the dragon healing it while you're surrounded by monsters because the dragon is out there on the front line taking the damage.

When i play my wizard i don't go solo with no summon because its just a suicide. Even with my mummy taking hits, i can't kill and keep him alive for too much because i soon run out of spells since the summon spawns so many monsters. With bioware bigbys i could hold one monster, pull other ones closer, and finish them off with several spells. But now, i have have to waste a lot of spells because damage is equally divided between the monsters that are in the area of effect of that spell.

I just hope that your bigbys will be effective. Right now, when i last time played my mage, maybe 1 out of 11 lvl9 bigbys worked in d14. I played with 9lvl bigbys for some time in that dungeon and i was getting 1 successful grab in 11 casted.
The same situation took place when i tried it with reptilicus and these giants and giant lords around that place. Maybe i was this unlucky, but i just stopped using bigbys after that play testing with bigbys.

Knockdown is one of those things that causes perpetual frustration. It should be a useful feat, but it's way too powerful and hard coded into the game. Otherwise, I'd rewrite it. Possible fixes: Remove knockdown feat from most monsters. Give casters the ability to get a knockdown immunity item. I'm in the process of doing the first and will give the second one some thought.

Thank you for your reply's.

First a 40 intell is accomplished without taking ANY other feats except one, 41 being the max possible for a wizard,cleric or a bard and sorcerers are even lower-stat wise,35 i think. If you specialize in spells, like any caster should: spell penn x3 and spell focus x3. . .much lower. So to start let's assume 34-36 as a reasonable stat not 40. If a fighter type took only str or dex, depending on which it's based in, it wouldn't be nearly as strong as those that specialize in weapons especially weapon masters. So why aren't casters that specialize in certian spell types respectively as powerful? You would immediately send a fighter type to the pit if it missed as much as these casters do. There is a huge lack of balance between casters and fighters on this sever. We are already limited by spells we can hold - fighters arent - we miss most of the time - they don't. . .spells are designed to hit for a reason just like a sword in a strong arm is. The only way to get a 40 strength in a fighter type and not be rediculously imballanced is to go rdd therefore losing pure status bonuses, another thing to consider, casters are usually pure. You stated that pure toons were more powerful than multiclasses. The way things are now with all the limitations on casters, it is equivical too hitting a couple times with your sword out of many tries then having it placed in your pack until you rest, lol. If you had a fighter type like this you would laugh 'em into early retirement! A powerful mage is feared and rightly so, just as a hero type fighter is. Can't have one without the other - or sword and sorcery becomes just swords. final note : a fighter type with a henchman doesn't spawn nearly as much as a caster with a summons (drag/mum), and at least has a fighting ( no punn intended lol) chance to survive,if the henchman dies, where as a caster is almost always overrun,if summons expires.

Thank you El Gabardine, I couldn't word it better than this.

I don't think it's all that tough to get a 40 intelligence (or 40 charisma if you're a sorcerer). That includes your base plus up to +12 from potions and items. A helm +8 plus a potion of intelligence would give you the +12 pretty easily. With an 18 to start and 10 more at level 40 (not counting epic feats to gain more points), you'd have 28 + 12 or 40. Plus, we are only talking about the Bigby's spells, and people are upset because they were using Bigby's predominately.

On the other hand, I agree spell damage is generally too weak. That's after I increased damage considerably over default versions. A fireball, for example, should pretty much kill someone if they aren't immune to fire and fail to save. 60d6 will only do an average of 210 damage. The higher level monsters scoff at that kind of damage.

Yes I am upset that my Bigby's are not like before, what is a level 60 sor/wiz going to do in the higher dungeons when they spawn a mess and they all come after them if NONE of her hands take hold, some people like to play alone but can't now if your a sor/wiz. I feel this is a losing battle so I'll end my battle here.

Thank you guys for your replys, God Bless

I'm still in the process of tweaking monsters, so all's not lost for wizards yet. I already lowered HP and ability scores across the lot of monsters, so that increases the odds of spells working. I'll have to monitor play and continue to adjust accordingly.

I thought we were talking nonbuffed stats, sry for the misunderstanding.